Notes
Note H1961
Index
REFERENCE NOTES
=============================================
1831 - Birth Record - Copy of Parish Register 2010-12-21 from SAG [TAS BAPTISM FILM 3305]
Number 128 - 27 March 1831 Elizabeth born Macquarie Harbour 7 March 1831 to Edward and Mary MacKey, abode Macquarie Harbour, Sergeant 63rd Regiment, performed by William Schofield
1831 - Baptism Record - Baptism performed by William Schofield 27/3/1831
Edward Comber's death certificate sites Bessie McIntyre, which Denis Miller believed to be an error for Elizabeth Mackey.
1832 - Conflicting information about place of birth - Ferozepore, India.
1849 - NSW State Archives - Irish Famine Orphan Ship JOHN KNOX, travelling with sister Sarah; Departed 6 December 1849 from Ireland via Plymouth, Devon to Sydney
1850 - NSW State Archives - Irish Famine Orphan Ship JOHN KNOX, travelling with sister Sarah; Arrival 29 April 1850 to Sydney - Can Read & Write - Church of England
1851 - Marriage Record - Edward Comber
1880 - Death Record
=============================================
more re the orphan girls really
Perry McIntyre
14/03/2009
Reply
to me
Dear Megan
Not bad for any sort of Aussie really - regardless of where you were born
Fabulous story. Have I asked you before where you live because I do hope you may be able to join us for the 10th anniversary celebrations of the monument to the Girls at Hyde Park Barracks in Sydney on Sunday 30 August starting about 10.30-11.00 more details to follow in due course.
Cheers and no doubt we have become email pen pals, if that’s what its called
Perry
Dr Perry McIntyre
Historian
: Email: perrymcintyre@optushome.com.au
Postal Address * : P O Box 4, Spit Junction NSW 2088
size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
From: Megan Tilley [mailto:megan.tilley@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 14 March 2009 4:41 PM
To: perrymcintyre@optushome.com.au
Subject: Re: John Anlezark
Wow - Elizabeth Mackie is very popular today - yours is the 2nd email about her asking the same types of questions.
If it is OK with you, I will just copy my response to the previous email (which did not ask the same question you did, or as nicely...) in response to your email????
[quote]
.... From what I have found to date, especially Elizabeth's Baptismal Certificate, and the history of Sgt Edward's regiment (also quoted on the BapCert), all point towards Macquarie Harbor, where Straun, TAS is currently located.
According to the histories available regarding that area, Sarah Island, and the other "smaller" locales, only had a 'few' military men actually ON the islands - they were on rotation between the islands and the main part of Tasmania (actually Van Dieman's Land to be accurate). I believe that Sgt Edward was one of the 5 Sergeants stationed in the area and in the regiment at that time. [NB the actual military listing is held under the British Army records at Kew in England - I have yet to sight those records.]
The regiment was then posted to India (referred to as East India and West India in various IGI records on the familysearch.org
site (Mormon database)). It appears that Sgt Edward died at sea, most probably on the way to his posting, but could be travelling between regiment locations. Wife Ann died at roughly the same time, leaving 3 known children (Mary Jane, Sarah and Elizabeth). The British Army sent the now orphaned girls back to Ireland, which was where Edward enlisted. [Again, the confirming data is held under the British Army records at Kew.]
Mary Jane married Robert Devlyn Smyth and moved to Utah, USA (as a Mormon).
Elizabeth and Sarah were selected from the workhouse, where they lived as orphans, to participate in the Irish Famine Orphan project, bringing Irish girls to Sydney to work as servants, and to provide wives for the Colony, arriving in Sydney on the JOHN KNOX in 1850.
[endquote]
The NSW State Record, which I found late last year, show that Sarah and Elizabeth both stated (probably during the selection process in Ireland) that they had an "aunt/cousin Ann Gilroy" living in Sydney. I have not yet been successful in tracking Ann down yet.
Just to be clear - I am descended from Elizabeth Mackie. She is my 2Great Grandmother. Elizabeth Mackie married Edward Coomber or Comber (spelled both ways in the various records). Elizabeth and Edward had 14 known children, one of whom was Elizabeth Comber b 1853.
Elizabeth Comber (the daughter and my Great Grandmother) was a midwife/housekeeper, and she was employed in/around 1875 by Robert Hardy in the Narrabri area to help his wife, who had had a series of 'bad' pregnancies. Robert, at the time, was married to Mary Dowling Minchin (previously married to a Joseph Minchin). Mary was an Irish Famine Orphan on the THOMAS ARBUTHNOT.
Mary eventually died, and Elizabeth Comber married Robert. Interestingly, Elizabeth appears to have had 5 children with Robert BEFORE Mary dies. My Grandmother's birth certificate shows her as Isabella Sarah COMBER. My Grandmother's marriage certificate shows her as Isabella Sarah HARDY. It is believed that amendments were made to the Registry Office after the marriage of Robert and Elizabeth to 'legitamise' the 3 living children and make them HARDYs.
As you say - an interesting story, and part of Australian History
BTW - just to complete the Hardy story that I currently know- this Robert's father and mother were Robert and Dinah Hardy, and came to Australia as part of the Australian Agriculture Company's mining effort arriving in Australia 7Jan 1827 on the sailing ship AUSTRALIA. Robert was employed to assist in opening up the lands around Port Stephens. There was quite a to-do between Robert and others brought out and the AAC, and eventually Robert and Dinah moved back to Sydney Town. He was apparently part of the team involved with the Argyle Cut, and after a lot of adventures (that I am still trying to understand) Robert eventually died in Lamplough VIC (near Avoca Goldfields) of TB - I believe he was a storekeeper not a miner, but I wouldn't be surprised given he came to Oz as a miner/quarryman
I believe Robert & Dinah's arrival qualify me for Pioneer status Not bad for an American-born Aussie
Hope this helps
Megan
-=-=-=-=-
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Perry McIntyre wrote:
Dear Megan
This is fascinating. Do you know the story of why and how Sarah went to Ireland - one of her parents must have returned for her to have gone back and then sought to return to Australia. Given you have a sister you have locked into their place in Ireland. A brilliant story. Unfortunately I don’t have anything else on these girls but will copy this back to Trevor incase he has some more material hidden away
You are descended from two orphan girls then with Mary Dowling Minnch/Minchin per Thomas Arbuthnot
No the Mary Doyle I want arrived free on the Red Rover in 1832 - way too early to be a Famine Orphan. This is the transcription of her marriage - the CF here refers to the church at Liverpool and was simply a code used by births, deaths and marriages.
CF John Anlezark [X] of the parish of Liverpool, bachelor; Mary Ann Doyle [X], spinster of parish of Liverpool; Married in this church [Liverpool] by banns with consent of relatives on 3 April 1838 by Rev Richard Taylor MA
Witnesses: Thomas Willington [S] and Matilda Anlezark [S] both of Liverpool
Re Mary Dowling per Thomas Arbuthont. Trevor McClaughlin had this in his first volume: BG78/G/5 No.22543, ragged and dirty, Union at large, in 9 July 1847, out 20 Oct 1849 her brother Michael left he workhouse 26 July 1850; married Robert Hardy, Lochinvar, 31 March 1857, farmer of Lochinvar, Stoney Creek and Coal Creek near Muswellbrook, 7 children, died 9 Oct 1886, buried Rookwood; his estate valued at L55. Ruth Bieri, 22 Church Street, Castle Hill 2154
The BG references are ones that Trevor looked at in Ireland years ago. We don’t have an email contact for Ruth Bieri but she provided the following information which you may already know: Ruth Bieri, descendant, noted that Mary Dowling was a widow with the surname Minch when she married Robert Hardy on 31/3/1857. She had one daughter to Minch but no records of the first marriage have been located.
Robert Hardy's second married to Elizabeth Comber in 1887 [REg no 6159]
Joseph Dowling Hardy - 4th child of Mary and Robert was born at Stoney Creek, near Singleton. His grandmother Dinah Hardy who was midwife acted as such at his birth - see Births register 1802-64 of Singleton.
no record of the birth of a daughter but a Mary Minch married a William Rigney in 1876 [reg no 4260]. Believed by the family to be the daughter of Mary Dowling;
marriage entry 19, Vol 101. NSW BDM
NSW BDM Index only shows births for this couple between 1854 and 1860 as one child, first name not given, born 1856 3182/121
Great stuff
Cheeers
Perry
Dr Perry McIntyre
Historian
: Email: perrymcintyre@optushome.com.au
Postal Address * : P O Box 4, Spit Junction NSW 2088
==========
=========================================================================================
Email from/to Gerard Whelan 2008-JUL-30
This is most interesting. Yes, I am a descendant of Elizabeth and Edward Comber.
I am still very confused about Elizabeth Mackie. I have now seen 2 trees with my 4 g grandmother Elizabeth Mackey b 7.3.1831 - one with parents Alexander Mackay and Ann Parkes in Port Macquarie and one with parents Edward Mackey and Mary born in Macquarie Harbour.
Has your research uncovered any certificates which will confirm which one is correct?
Regards
Cousin Gerard Whelan
--------------
Reply to Gerard Whelan 2008-JUL-30
Firstly, my Grandmother, Isabella Sarah (Comber) (Hardy) Miller, remembered the stories about her grandmother Elizabeth Mackie Comber, as told by Isabella's mother Elizabeth Comber Hardy (dau of Elizabeth Mackie Comber). My mother took notes about Isabella's stories, and while anecdotal in effect, the stories referred to Elizabeth Mackie Comber's father being Edward Mackie, who was a Sergeant in the British Army.
Secondly, I based my research on these stories, so you can rest assured I was extremely pleased to find the certificates my Uncle Denis (my mother's brother, and son of Isabella) had obtained from the NSW BDMs back in the 1980s
Thirdly, in my communications with other descendants of the Hardy-Comber (Robert Hardy b 1834 in Sydney and Elizabeth Comber b 1853 in Mulgoa - daughter of Edward Comber and Elizabeth Mackie) marriage, we have discussed Elizabeth Comber's parents. And, while a few have brought up the other couple you refer to, Andrew Mackay and Ann Parkes, our consensus has been that Edward Mackie and wife Mary are the actual parents of Elizabeth Mackie, who married Edward Comber. {Sorry this paragraph is so convoluted }
Upon reviewing my certificates in hand, I have noted that a Birth Cert (not the Baptism Cert) that I previously thought belonged to Elizabeth Mackie actually refers to daughter Elizabeth Comber... I have sent out some emails to my "other descendants" to see if any have acquired the cert I thought I had. Color me disappointed with this situation..... In the meantime, I have attached a copy of daughter Elizabeth Comber's Death Cert that shows Edward Comber and Mary (Mackay) as parents. My Uncle Denis has corrected the name to Mackey .
The story I have had from the lady who referred me to the Orphan Ship story basically told me that Edward and Mary Mackie, along with daughter Elizabeth, moved from Australia to India in/around 1835 as part of the British Army fighting for the East India Company. Mary died, thought to be from a Cholera infection, and Edward died shortly afterwards. Our Elizabeth Mackie was sent back to England as an orphan (this info from the Regimental Records). About 20yrs later, Elizabeth Mackie made a request to join one of the Orphan Ships back to Australia, where, she stated, she had a surviving relative (effectively, she would cease to be an orphan on the state, but would be part of a family). Hence, Elizabeth Mackie was back in Oz around 1850 where she eventually met and married Edward Comber. While this lady (Cheryl Mongan) has done the research, I have yet to do my own research (this data received 5 June 2008). She has given me a number of points of reference to pursue.
=========================================================================================
Email to Gerard Whelan 2014-JUN-23 and his response 2014-JUN-24, my subsequent reply 2014-JUN-24.
To recap:
You and I are both related to Edward Comber and Elizabeth Mackay, who married in 1851 (thank you for their marriage certificate - where did you find it, as it does not show up in the online NSW BDM searches )
Elizabeth Mackay's surname has been spelled a number of different ways, including:
Mackay
Mackey
Mackie
McKee
McKey
McGee
We know that Elizabeth had two sisters:
Mary Jane, who married Robert Devlyn Smyth (also spelled Robert Devlin Smith). Mary Jane moved to Utah with Robert and raised 14 children
Sarah, who emigrated from Ireland with Elizabeth per the JOHN KNOX in 1850 as Irish Famine Orphans
You and I discussed the info I had found about Elizabeth and her family:
Elizabeth was baptised in VDL in 1832
Her father was in the 62nd Regiment and was eventually stationed in India, where his wife Ann and children lived. He and Ann died of (probably cholera) and the girls were returned to Ireland as his place of enlistment.
Elizabeth & Sarah are both shown on documents recording their entry into Australia as Irish Famine Orphans, and on one of those documents shows that there is an entry indicating a relation in the colony
List of Immigrants per Ship JOHN KNOX as inspected by the Immigration Board, on 1st May 1856
Number 18 McKay Elizabeth aged 19 House Servant Macquarie Harbour Van Dieman's :amd Edward & Ann both decd CoE R&W an Aunt - a [coz] Ann Gilroy living in Sydney (health) Good (behaviour on ship) None
Number 19 McKay Sarah aged 21 House Servant Stepney (Cootehill, Cavan) ditto ditto ditto ditto Good None
So, now the reasoning:
I have found quite a lot of info about Elizabeth - we have shared most of that info during my visit with you
I have quite a lot about sister Mary Jane and her family in Utah
I HAD almost nothing about sister Sarah.
Examining Edward & Elizabeth's 1851 marriage certificate, I spotted as witness ANN MURPHY - I have NO proof and have not been able to find a marriage for the Ann Gilroy of the Immigration register, and I wonder if this might be the same ANN. (SUPPOSITION #1)
I have always been confused about the naming of one of Elizabeth's children George Westby Walker Comber
recently, I was doing sporadic searches of TROVE using names out of my genealogy files.
I found an entry for a Dr Westby Walker who lived in Sofala. I've attached the items I found herewith.
Dr Westby Walker appears to have married a woman by the name of Bertha SARAH - have been unable to find a marriage registration
Dr Westby died in 1872
the same Bertha Sarah married John O'Hern - she died 1915 aged 86. By my maths, 1915 minus 86 equals 1829
Surprisingly (or I am making it surprising ) Sarah Mackey was born c1829. This info confirmed on the Immigration document
(Supposition #2) Elizabeth and her sister Sarah remained in contact and Elizabeth named her son George Westby Walker Comber in recognition of her sister's husband.
I think Supposition #2 is highly likely.
I am hoping that Supposition #1 is accurate.
Do you have any data on Sarah (or should I refer to her as Bertha Sarah???)?
So looking forward to hearing your response
Your Third Cousin once Removed
-----------
You have raised some distinct possibilities here with the Combers.
Carol got the copy of the Wedding Certificate (actually banns) back in 1982 from a descendant of Elizabeth Comber/Hardy. I believe she got it from the CofE archives. On their web site they say they have made microfiche of their records up to 1934 and have given them to the SAG and Mitchell Library.
I am thinking these may have some info on both Sarah and maybe Ann Gilroy (like you, I have not been able to get any info on her)
Re: Dr Westby Walker-this is a most unusual name, his death notice suggests he had no children form that marriage which suggests it was a second marriage and later in life. I suspect Westby was married in England before coming to Australia (can’t find him on shipping list). He was born c1803 (some 26yrs before Sarah) and his parents were probably Peter and Lydia from Lancashire.
I would be surprised if the Westby Walker Comber (b1862, maybe just prior to this when Westby and Sarah married) was not named after Dr Westby Walker.
Of course it is possible Sarah was married prior to marrying Westby also.
==========
My reply 24June 2014
I am glad you think that there is the very good likelihood that George Westby Walker Comber WAS named for Elizabeth Mackie's brother-in-law, husband of Sarah/Bertha Sarah. Another of Elizabeth's sons was apparently named after Elizabeth's half brother John William (or William John) Mckey/Mackie/Mackay/etc./etc. So there is actually more than one 'recognition' of other people in Elizabeth's children's names
Also, thank you for clearing up the origin of Elizabeth & Edward's marriage certificate. I am wondering why it does not show up in the NSW-BDM Online Registry (www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/). One would think that there is a great relationship between NSW-BDM & SAG & the Churches
=========================================================================================
Email reply from Gerard 31Jul2014
his is really interesting , I am still trying to digest it all. However I agree with you that this is the most likely family.
My wife Carol did quite a bit of family tree back in the 1980s and got a copy of Elizabeth Comber Mackey' death certificate which your uncle had amended. Name of father shows Edward Comber, selector. This sounds more like her husband the informant. Been in Australia 29 years and born in Ireland.
Also there is no birth certificate for Elizabeth Mackey, Mackay, Mackie, Mackee, McKay, Mckey in registered in NSW around 1831.
----------
My reply to Gerard 31Jul2014
Re:
This certificate has caused me great concern...
To be clear, I am referencing Death certificate entry 10372, number 290 of 1880.
I think there is an error on this cert (which agrees with your conclusions) that this certificate refers to Elizabeth Comber, daughter of Edward Comber selector and Elizabeth Mackey.
the Orphan Ship story I told you about in last email supports the "coming from Ireland" info, but not the born in Tasmania story.
It is my belief that Husband Edward Comber got the information wrong, or it was recorded incorrectly (my best bet on the latter).
As we have been discussing, Elizabeth Mackie's dad (Sgt Edward Mackie) was a British Soldier, who died in/around India/Burma.
As my Uncle Denis has written on this cert, I am going to order another copy to see if there is any different data available on a newer document (this one was generated in 1982).
Of course, we all hate the fact that children are named for their predecessors - I have 2 Elizabeth Combers and 4 Edward Combers in my charts so am ALWAYS confused about which one I am referring to -
--------------
From Gerard 2008-AUG-08
Our copy of the DC you referred to is from 1982. Given the year of death 1880, I thought this would be Elizabeth Comber Mackie daughter of Edward (Sgt) Mackie and the informant Edward Comber has entered his own father's info.
Looking at the records of the British Army in Australia there was an Edward Mackey in the 1/63rd West Suffolk Regiment, which was in Australia from 1827 to 1834, I don't yet know where it served.
It is hard enough tracing family with the different spellings but when each generation use the same christian name it really makes it hard.
My link to Mackies is through my mother Dympna Hickey, father John Hickey, mother Frances Leonard, mother Sarah Amelia Comber, mother Elizabeth Mackey.
I live in Wollongong and my wife and I would like to meet you somewhere for coffee and compare notes sometime.
Some years ago my wife was in touch with Merle Whitnall from Beecroft who had info on the Comber family. Do you know of her?
-----------
From Gerard
I was fishing through the NSW BDM index and came across Elizabeth Mackey parents Edward and Mary No V18311756 1620A/1831.
Reply to Gerard
Yes, that's the copy I forwarded to you.
I have been receiving orders from the BDM Registry recently (for other individuals) and I note that the online index indicates BIRTH record, but the actual document received is a BAPTISM certificate that has the birth date recorded.
=========================================================================================
Was it unusual for people to be registered in NSW but born in Tasmania in those times? possibly through the army system? through the Methodist Church?
Yes, it was the norm - up to about 1840 Van Diemans Land was a part of the Sydney Colony.
Around the time of Port Arthur being built it (VDL) was split off from an Administrative perspective. Also, most of the Army was based in Sydney, too (you are right ) so all paperwork went back to HQ
=========================================================================================
Email from John Parker dated 14MAR2009, subject "The birthplace of Elizabeth Mackie [ie. mother of Elizabeth Comber] ... NSW or TAS???"
Megan/Ryan
I've been reading through all of your emails and re-reading Hertel's book, with specific reference to Elizabeth Comber's mother, Elizabeth Mackie.
According to Hertel's book, she was born in 7/3/1831 at "Macquarie Harbour" [I quote "probably Port Macquarie a penal colony then"] ... daughter of Sgt. Edward Mackie. At some point in time she must have returned to Ireland? England? [or was it India?]. Your email indicates that she returned to Sydney with her sister Sarah on the JOHN KNOX in 1850 prior to marrying Edward Comber on 21/7/1851, and died in 19/5/1880 at Bundella, Gunnedah.
Now reading through your website http://www.tilleyenterprises.com/ged-H-tree/ghtout/np86.htm#iin12305 ... I come across the place of birth as being "Australia, TAS, Macquarie Harbour". Tasmania was also penal colony state, and at Strahan we find "Macquarie Harbour" with a penal settlement on Sarah Island. When I checked out Sarah Island, I learnt "The penal settlement at Sarah Island was the most brutal in the state, where unruly convicts from Port Arthur were transported."
My conclusion is that we should NOT be looking to Port Macquarie, NSW as assumed in Hertel's book as Elizabeth Mackie's birthplace, but Macquarie Harbour, Strahan, TAS. I put this error down to the writer's/contributor's ignorance that there was such a place.
Do you both agree?
--------------------------------------------------
Reply to John Parker dated 14MAR2009
Hey John - quite correct.
From what I have found to date, especially Elizabeth's Baptismal Certificate, and the history of Sgt Edward's regiment (also quoted on the BapCert), all point towards Macquarie Harbor, where Straun, TAS is currently located.
According to the histories available regarding that area, Sarah Island, and the other "smaller" locales, only had a 'few' military men actually ON the islands - they were on rotation between the islands and the main part of Tasmania (actually Van Dieman's Land to be accurate). I believe that Sgt Edward was one of the 5 Sargeants stationed in the area and in the regiment at that time. [NB the actual military listing is held under the British Army records at Kew in England - I have yet to sight those records.]
The regiment was then posted to India (referred to as East India and West India in various IGI records on the familysearch.org site (Mormon database)). It appears that Sgt Edward died at sea, most probably on the way to his posting, but could be travelling between regiment locations. Wife Ann died at roughly the same time, leaving 3 known children (Mary Jane, Sarah and Elizabeth). The British Army sent the now orphaned girls back to Ireland, which was where Edward enlisted. [Again, the confirming data is held under the British Army records at Kew.]
Mary Jane married Robert Devlyn Smyth and moved to Utah, USA (as a Mormon).
Elizabeth and Sarah were selected from the workhouse, where they lived as orphans, to participate in the Irish Famine Orphan project, bringing Irish girls to Sydney to work as servants, and to provide wives for the Colony, arriving in Sydney on the JOHN KNOX in 1850.
Hope this helps.
------------------------------------------------
Email from John Parker dated 14MAR2009
Gotcha This just underscores the errors that keep popping up in Hertel's book. Mind you, I think anyone undertaking the task she had assumed, could be forgiven for these errors. They were contributed by people who were trying remember snippets of info from the dim past. Hearsay rather than facts.
------------------------------------------------
Email reply to John Parker dated 14MAR2009
Emily Hertel first published her booklet in 1981. Apparently there were two issues (a second edition was made around 1987 after numerous (I believe there were 23 separate communicators) amendments to the published data were made.
All the research done by Emily was painstakingly perusing the records held by the Society of Australian Genealogy, the Mitchell Library, NSW State Records (and other States, too), and the National Archives - requiring physical presence at those institutions. From what I remember, my mother told me that there were 2 others assisting Emily with this research, and from different branches of Robert and Dinah's family.
There was no Internet access to any of these records at that time.
I think it is a marvelous work of research, regardless of the errors within.
Since the advent of the Internet, and the increasing numbers of Baby Boomers now searching their own families, the demand to release these records has increased to such an extent that we now have access to scanned documents provided by Governmental bodies and other reference institutions - we are so lucky to be able to sit at home in Australia and access ancient records held in the UK.
Personally, I use Emily's work as a basis for my own research. I do not have access to any family records - as I have indicated, all my grandmother's keepsakes have been lost to me. I am slowly building up a record of what's happened in the family (especially in my direct-line family via Isabella Sarah Comber Hardy Miller), to understand how our families have helped form the Australia we now live in. I am also benefiting from learning Australian History that I was not taught at school, having been born in the USA.
I do not quite understand your "Gotcha" - are you referring to me confirming your hypothesis or to the fact Emily's data is incorrect?
It is my view that any piece of information is suspect until confirmed.
Also, we can not depend on "official records" to be 100% correct - as illustrated by the birth certificate held in NSW BDM Registry, my Grandmother's celebrated birthday, and the family Bible pages you have sent me = I have found that two of these three sources agree, and it is the information on the Bible pages that are not able to be confirmed... what am I going to do?
I will probably stick with my own data and add the Bible pages as a secondary source of information. Subsequent viewers of my information/data will see that I have 1) a Birth Certificate, 2) anecdotal references to the Birth day, and 3) an extract of the Family Bible as provided by John Parker.
------------------------------------------------
Email reply from John Parker dated 14MAR2009
Gotcha as in "I know comprehend what you are driving at". No negative inference was intended, believe me.
BTW, I wasn't being critical of Emily Hertel's book. My copy is the 1990 edition, but still there are some discrepancies. To be honest when I first read it I took it as gospel until I started picking up some minor errors. Even so, she has given me far more information than I could have hoped for.
In preparing my own narrative, I got Emily's written permission to copy sections from it. When I spoke to her granddaughter Jenny Wales on the phone, she indicated to me that Emily's memory is not as good as it was.
I have been trying to substantiate things by doing my own searching through the net, but it hasn't been nearly as successful as yours. My big challenge is to go back and find details of Frederick Rowland's family. I some but not enough for my liking.
Do you have any suggestions as to where I might start my search?
---------------------------------------------
Email from John Parker to Ryan Dudley and Megan Tilley dated 2009-MAR-14, subject "RE:Irish Girl Orphans"
Ryan
Thanks for that.
My knowledge of the Irish Orphan Girls were courtesy of “Australian Heroines” by Susan Geason [2001].
Regards
John Parker
---------------------------------------------
Email from Ryan Dudley to John Parker and Megan Tilley, dated 2009-MAR-14, subject "Frederick Rowland"
Hi John & Megan,
I do not have anything on Frederick Rowland as the Hardy family are not related to me. I have only researched Elizabeth Comber and the children she had to John Fitzsimmons who are my blood relations.
Interestingly my great-great-grandmother Mary Baker also arrived on the "John Knox" in 1850 having come from the Cashel Union Workhouse. If you haven't done so already, check out the book Barefoot and Pregnant? by Trevor McClaughlin. Elizabeth McKay is listed on page 264 aged 19 born in Macquarie Head, Van Diemens Land d.o Edmund and Ann (both dead).
Regards,
Ryan
Email reply to Ryan Dudley dated 2009-MAR14 from Megan
That is indeed interesting - I guess Elizabeth & Sarah Mackie probably knew Mary Baker as not only did they travel together on the JOHN KNOX I have Trevor's book and have used it with great zeal
That is indeed interesting - I guess Elizabeth & Sarah Mackie probably knew Mary Baker as not only did they travel together on the JOHN KNOX, but they also were in the Cashel, too
--------------------------------------------------
Email from Ryan Dudley dated 2009-MAR-14
Hi Megan,
I hit all dead ends when I tried to locate any records relating to the girls in Cashel Union. Did you have any luck finding records for Elizabeth & Sarah? Trevor made a typing error with the details I sent him for Mary. Mary Baker was born in Clonoulty, Tipperary in 1827; thus she was 23 (a lot older than most girls) when she came out to Sydney. I believe Mary was chosen as she already had a sister Margaret Dollisson (nee Baker) living in Sydney. Margaret's husband Henry requested Mary be taken in by them when she arrived and two years later she married Henry's friend, and fellow coachman, James Cook.
Ryan
Email Reply to Ryan Dudley dated 2009-MAR-14
Actually, that is just it... in my early genealogy days I made the mistake of "misinterpretation" of data - the entry for Sarah shows "Coathill, Cavan" and I have written down Cashel in my own data... So - I AM WRONG - it is NOT Cashel as I stated in my previous email
So sorry about that, but thank you for questioning me about it so I could find my error.
=======================================================================
2017-06-14 - RESEARCH REQUIRED ON ELIZABETH MCKAY (Western Sydney Records Office)
Registers and indexes of applications for orphans
(4/4715-17; microfilm copy SR Reel 3111). 3 vols.
Registers and indexes of applications for orphans
Description
Each entry records the progressive number and date of the application, name and address of the applicant, type of employment offered, and result of the application.
The volumes are of the same kind used to register and index ordinary letters received. These applications were processed separately for administrative convenience
(4/4715-17; microfilm copy SR Reel 3111). 3 vols.
- inspiration source - McClaughlin, Trevor, "Earl Grey’s Irish Famine Orphans (34)" blog dated 27 May 2016 at 19:47
"....If i was to do a similar exercise again, my starting point would be the people who actually employed the orphans. Since the 1980s, we have been able to identify many more of the orphans' employers. See the website http://www.irishfaminememorial.org/en/orphans/....."
that is - search for Sarah Emilia and Edward Coomber/Comber, etc...
=======================================================================
Email that failed with an "Recipient Address Rejected" error message = 2013-08-05
Mackie Family History
Genealogy Topics/Mackay & Comber
x
Megan Tilley
05/08/2013
Reply
to Sharon
Hello, Sharon,
I do hope you forgive me "cold-calling" you in this manner.
I found your email details on these two sites:
RootsWeb - Orange Family History Group Register of Interests http://resources.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~guestbook/cgi-bin/public_guestbook.cgi?gb=4592&action=view
The Eslick/Mackies of Orange NSW Australia http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/s/m/i/Sharon-Kaye-Smith/index.html
after I searched for "Mackie family history Orange NSW".
My 3rd Great Grandfather was Edward Mackie (also spelled Mackey, Mackay, and McKee in British Army records).
The story is that Edward married firstly Mary McGrath in Ireland and secondly Ann Taylor (my 3GGMother) in Ireland, or in Chatham, Kent where his regiment was located.
Mary & Edward had one son
Ann & Edward had 3 daughters
I have just found a note my uncle made in the 1980s that tells the story that Edward's son:
was in the Coldstream Guards, and
spelled his name as William John McKey
emigrated to Orange NSW with his family around the 1850s
I am wondering if you know of (have heard of) these Mackies, especially William John being in the Orange area?
I am in Sydney.
Thank you for your time.
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1831 - Birth Record - Copy of Parish Register 2010-12-21 from SAG [TAS BAPTISM FILM 3305]
Number 128 - 27 March 1831 Elizabeth born Macquarie Harbour 7 March 1831 to Edward and Mary MacKey, abode Macquarie Harbour, Sergeant 63rd Regiment, performed by William Schofield
1831 - Baptism Record - Baptism performed by William Schofield 27/3/1831
Edward Comber's death certificate sites Bessie McIntyre, which Denis Miller believed to be an error for Elizabeth Mackey.
1832 - Conflicting information about place of birth - Ferozepore, India.
1849 - NSW State Archives - Irish Famine Orphan Ship JOHN KNOX, travelling with sister Sarah; Departed 6 December 1849 from Ireland via Plymouth, Devon to Sydney
1850 - NSW State Archives - Irish Famine Orphan Ship JOHN KNOX, travelling with sister Sarah; Arrival 29 April 1850 to Sydney - Can Read & Write - Church of England
1851 - Marriage Record - Edward Comber
1880 - Death Record
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